Posts by Shepherd Book

12

Witness intelligence vs. stupidity

by Shepherd Book in

jw
friends

there has been a recent thread debating the intelligence of jws.

i was going to post on that thread but, alas, i have gotten too verbose and have decided to start a new thread.

i was and am a nerd.

Shepherd Book

Darth- Your example is a great example of another aspect to leaving / not leaving the religion. Certainly not all leave because they uncover the truth about the truth. Some leave simply because they want to smoke! There were definitely people who left for psychological reasons, just as there are people who were kicked out (DF'd) but still believe it's true. Again, I was just responding to the 'Witnesses are stupid' theory.

12

Witness intelligence vs. stupidity

by Shepherd Book in

jw
friends

there has been a recent thread debating the intelligence of jws.

i was going to post on that thread but, alas, i have gotten too verbose and have decided to start a new thread.

i was and am a nerd.

Shepherd Book

Darth - thanks for formatting. At work, on Windows, I seem unable to post at all, while at home, on a Mac I can't get the formatting right. My apologies if the post came across as cocky or arrogant, but there was a recent thread in which a few people claimed that all Witnesses are stupid (sorry, can't find the thread). I don't think that's the case, and that was the point of my post. Most people on this forum probably take a certain pride in the fact that they've had the smarts to see the Watchtower Society for what it really is. Once out, there is a tendency to think that those who are still in the religion are 'stupid' in some way. So, I was also trying to point out that it's possible that there are some highly intelligent people who Witness - not merely despite their smarts, but because of them. I can see how my example at the end of my initial post came across as trying to sound intelligent; maybe a different example, in which I was not smart, will be more to your liking... I always grappled with the fact that God, in the old testament, was such a blood-thirsty war-monger. I could never get this to jive with a supposed 'God of love'. It always bothered me. I hated discussing it, because I couldn't think of a way to satisfactorily explain it. Now, I bet there are people still in the religion who can come up with an explanation that satisfies them. Heck, I bet there are people on this forum who used to have a great way to explain that. I wasn't one of them. A person smarter than me, therefore, probably can explain it away and remain in the religion.

12

Witness intelligence vs. stupidity

by Shepherd Book in

jw
friends

there has been a recent thread debating the intelligence of jws.

i was going to post on that thread but, alas, i have gotten too verbose and have decided to start a new thread.

i was and am a nerd.

Shepherd Book

There has been a recent thread debating the intelligence of JWs. I was going to post on that thread but, alas, I have gotten too verbose and have decided to start a new thread. I was – and am – a nerd. I always loved studying and, to this day, I’m quite the bookworm. Of course, when I was a Witness, I looked for any sort of ‘proof’ to support my belief that I had the truth. Throughout my teenage years, this was partially supported by the fact that those of my peers who left the religion were dumber than me. I don’t mean to sound cocky, but it was always the ‘cool’ kids – the ones who slouched in their chairs, gave lousy talks and seemed to cop an ‘attitude’ that left. I, and my friends, the ones who loved studying & discussing intellectual topics by and large remained Witnesses as we morphed from adolescence to adulthood. Needless to say, I thought to myself: “Of course the dumb kids leave the truth, because they’re too lazy to find out for themselves that it’s the truth.” And I think that was an accurate assessment. See, I was such a nerd, I would have been made fun of in school whether I was a Witness or not. I was such a nerd that being a Witness was EASY for me – I always did well on my talks. In fact, the last talk I ever gave, I just got up & gave it with no preparation whatsoever. Afterward, the School overseer said: “I can tell you put a lot of preparation into that talk”. Commenting was easy, so was talking to people at the doors (relatively). What’s more, worldly things didn’t appeal to me; I had no desire to go to clubs, or to do drugs, or get a tattoo or celebrate Xmas. Compare this to others in the congregation. They got along with their schoolmates and probably resented the fact that they had to keep ‘worldlings’ at arm’s length. They probably disliked studying, and so found the additional requirement of studying for the meetings to be additionally burdensome. When they commented, they knew their comments weren’t anything special, and they struggled to give decent talks. Going out in service was an embarrassment. So, in time, they left. So… When I left the religion, I was left with an odd quandary: I left for intellectual reasons and so I wondered if all those who left before me were, in fact, smarter than me and if all those who are still JWs are less intelligent than me. This didn’t seem right, as I had a tough time believing that I was smarter than all 7 million JW, and I also disliked the idea that I was dumber than all the non-nerds who left before me. My wife pointed out, however, that the non-bookwormish people who left (that is, those who left because they wanted to be ‘bad’ as opposed to leaving due to doctrinal issues), probably always felt that something wasn’t right w/in the religion. As I had an entire support network of 70+ Witness relatives & was constantly propped up; being told I was a good speaker and so on, I never felt that something wasn’t right. So, in a way, those who weren’t as book-smart excelled in common sense. In his book “Why People Believe Weird Things”, Michael Shermer spends an entire chapter explaining how smart people can be duped into falling for ‘weird things’. Here’s his conclusion (in a nut-shell): Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. Let me offer one such Witness example. I knew of JW who wondered how God could see into the future if we had free-will. That is, if our future hasn’t happened yet, how could God prophesy about what was going to happen? While this stumbled some, I reasoned thusly: Perhaps God’s superior intelligence can merely extrapolate better than we can, much as we can extrapolate better than our pets. For instance, I can ‘prophesy’ with reasonable accuracy, that I will wake tomorrow between 6 and 8AM, that the temperature will be ~40 degrees F, that I will drive in a car, that I will use my microwave, and so on. My cats, on the other hand, can make no such prophecies. Likewise, God can ‘extrapolate’ (i.e., foretell) far better than we can. Long story short – I was skilled at defending an absurd teaching…

15

Who's your favourite film director?

by lfcviking in

jw
friends

1. martin scorcese.

2. steven spielberg.

3. ridley scott.

Shepherd Book

Alfred Hitchcock by a large (no pun intended) margin.

22

"Encouraging" Emails

by Not Feeling It in

maybe you still get some "encouraging" email forwards with cute stories and anecdotes.

this one i saw really hit a nerve with me.

i think so-and-so needs to read that.

Shepherd Book

In their defense, it at least addresses the high turnover rate the JW experience - something most WItnesses aren't even aware of.

6

The Year of Living Biblically - JW encounter

by Shepherd Book in

jw
friends

i just finished reading the above mentioned book (author = a.j.

jacobs).

as the tile indicates, jacobs tries to follow the bible literally for an entire year.

Shepherd Book

I just finished reading the above mentioned book (author = A.J. Jacobs). As the tile indicates, Jacobs tries to follow the bible literally for an entire year. He spent 8 months worrying about the OT and 4 months on the NT. He didn't shave his beard, he wore fringes on his garments, he even refused to sit on any chair his wife sat on while she had her period.

Anyway, througout the book, he hooks up with a lot of people who take the bible seriously. He visits the Creation Museum, he travels to Israel, he hangs out with the Amish for one day and...of course...he invites a JW into his home.

Here are some funny/notable extracts from that portion of the book:

Page 74: Tonight, I invited a JW into my home. I realize that this fact already puts me in the extreme minority.

And, mind you, I didn't just idly answer the door and let a JW inside. I agressively pursued the JW. I phoned the headquarters and requested that a JW be sent to my apartment. After three call and not a little confusion on their part - it's not a common inquiry - I finally got my wish.

Yes, I'm aware that it doesn't make much sense. It's like volunteering for jury duty or paying to see a Vin Diesel movie.

...They're also interesting to me becuase they are usually classified as Christian, but, like the Amish, they lean heavily on the Hebrew Scriptures.

Page 75: [Michael, the JW who stopped by] is grateful. So grateful it's almost heartbreaking. He thanks me for having him over.

He sits on the living room couch, leaning forward, his hands in the 'fish-was-this-big' posture. ...Michael, who works in computers at the massive JW headquarters in Brooklyn, gives me a crash course in his faith.

The Witnesses don't celebrate Christmas or Easter, as neither holiday is mentioned in the bible. Birthdays are also out: The only two birthdays mentioned in the bible were those of evil people. ...Michael's fine with the ban, especially now. "As I get older, I don't want to be reminded of my birthday".

Page 76: "You just tell me when you want me to go," says Michael. "I'm from the Midwest, so I'm conscious of overstaying my welcome."

I ask him what's the most controversial part of his faith.

"The blood transfusion issue," he says. "People think we're kooks."

The reason is the literal translation of several verses, among them...Leviticus 7:26...which reads: "Ye shall eat no manner of blood".

The Witnesses make an unusual argument here. They say that the word EAT should really be translated as "Consume", and that transfusion qualifies as consumption.

As Michael points out, this is a seriously controversial. Critics say that the ban has caused numerous deaths, and the Witnesses have been the subject of several lawsuits.

Page 77: On the other hand, there are plenty of times [in the bible] when life takes precedence over obeying rules. Jesus lashes out at the Pharisees who criticize his follwers for gathering grain on the Sabbath.

As you might have guess, I'd make a horrible JW. ...If I needed a blood transfusion, I'd be rolling up my sleeve before the doctor finished his sentence. I'm just not faithful/brave/foolhardy enough to do otherwise.

Finally, at 10:30 - three hours after he arrived - Michael says politely that he should let me get to sleep.

And then it hits me: I have just done something few human beings have ever achieved. I have out-Bible-talked a JW.

24

Have you ever said "I could write a book!"

by compound complex in

dear wannabe writers,.

i'm sure that all of us have been either fascinated (or bored to distraction) by the loquacious reciter of personal tales who tops off his soliloquy with "i could write a book!

writing a book has left the realm of the remote possibility to become a truly practicable challenge.. do you have a tale to tell?

Shepherd Book

I'm writing a book...pretty much my life story as a Witness. It's over 500 pages long now, which may mean some serious editing is needed.

I felt compelled to do it after leaving the Watchtower. First, I just jotted down notes of my time as a Witness, then my wife aske dme to expand on some things for clarification. So 7 pages became 12 became 19 and then it got really serious.

Not sure what to do with it, though. Someone here was kind enough to reccommend a publishing company in my inbox, but the message was deleted before I could pursue the matter.

8

Can an Olive Tree Leaf Under Water?

by VM44 in

genesis 8:11 did the dove really find an olive tree?.

publish date: march 22, 2002. author: wayne jackson.

article description: is the account of noahs flood accurate?

Shepherd Book

Glad to see you have all enjoyed the website I created (www.watchtowerletters.com).

Here's the Watchtower Society's take on the olive leaf conundrum:

From the July 1, 1966 Watchtower, page 415:

"While the waters of the Flood undoubtedly did adversely affect many plants and trees, it does not seem improbable that an olive tree might survive them. The olive tree is quite hardy. It has been said of it that 'an old stump will continue to send up new stems, as if its vitality were indestructible.'"

Here they are quoting from the New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge. Looking at this original source, however, reveals that the authors of the Encyclopedia article were not referring to the olive when submerged under water. They were, instead, referring to the hardiness of the tree in its old age. In fact, earlier in the same paragraph, the Encyclopedia states: "[the olive tree] requires calcareous soil and a mean temperature of 15 degrees Celcuis (60 degrees F), and must be protected against strong winds and excessive heat." ...So, its not exactly going to survive a year-long cataclysmic deluge.

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